tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1981780833943704182.post8924614771528991981..comments2023-08-26T09:02:18.026-04:00Comments on Meanwhile.......Back at the Ranch: What's worse than Slaughter? How about Equine Rescue?Ranch Managerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15230951347227450112noreply@blogger.comBlogger96125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1981780833943704182.post-89728209166437575712009-10-07T17:44:19.179-04:002009-10-07T17:44:19.179-04:00RH1, if you want to have a discussion, please stop...RH1, if you want to have a discussion, please stop with the snide comments. I do not owe you or anyone an explanation on why I do not currently own a horse and it has no relevance to a discussion on rescues. I have stated over and over again that I sponsor horses so I am contributing to their care. John owns 12 horses so according to your logic, that makes him an expert on all things equine. Instead of writing a snide paragraph on where to find the link, wouldn’t it have been just as easy to paste a link into your post? I’m in the Midwest and we say Chicago time, NY time, CA time. If you don’t know what NV time is, it is Pacific. I said NV because it a local tv station, KLAS-TV channel 8, that probably doesn’t broadcast very far out of NV. I don’t know what their broadcast range is.<br /><br />I already have the AVMA paper and I also have the VEW paper. Have you read that? The AAEP has now said, and I quote “3. Penetrating captive bolt to the head of a calm, sedated or humanely restrained horse by a professional trained in this method.” The bolt is not administered by professionals, the horses are not humanely restrained, calm or sedated. The AQHAs own lobbyist, Conrad Burns has gone on record stating that the bolt is not humane for horses. So what is your point? If the AAEP has changed their tune, you should expect to see new clarifying guidelines from the AVMA. The guidelines were written by vets for vets and are being misused by those that support slaughter. Ask the AVMA and they’ll tell you same thing.<br /><br />John and I have had several discussions with Chase and although we don’t agree on much, I do respect him. He had John on his radio program and has been very cordial to us. If you are trying to get me to say something bad about him, you can forget it. I enjoyed my conversations with him and I’m sure we will have more. <br /><br />So do you want to discuss the rescues or keep going off topic?vickihttp://www.vickitobin.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1981780833943704182.post-72419765058750692582009-10-07T07:57:26.562-04:002009-10-07T07:57:26.562-04:00Call me narrow minded but I find it ironic you don...Call me narrow minded but I find it ironic you don't care enough to own one or even ride. Owning a horse and giving it a lasting career as a solid citizen is one of the surest ways to "save" it. You spend all your time "saving" but expect everyone else to do the actual leg work of caring for even one. Do as I say not as I do. Turning around your logic, does studying John Holland's or any statistics make you an expert on the AQHA or anything else to do with the actual horse industry? <br /><br />So I take that as you don't read Western Horseman, Horse & Rider, Equus, The Quarter Horse Journal, or any other equine trade magazine?<br /><br />You are well connected, educated, and obviously smarter than I so if you can't find this blog's other subjects I am really sure I can't find George Knapp. <br /><br />NV time??? is that something like Mountain Time or is it Pacific Time. I really am behind I was not aware we had an NV time zone. Besides,I don't spend much time watching any tv but if I did I would spend it watching America's Horse. I am pretty sure I will learn more from watching the likes of Bob Aviala than anyone you work with. <br /><br />I did have a chance to speak with Chase Adams and several others yesterday in a conference call. I found that quite informative. It puts a little clearer light on several of your subjects or I can drop names too.<br /><br />Here is a link you might find interesting. http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_welfare/euthanasia.pdf Read the whole thing, not just the parts you want, in other words don't treat it like this blog or the AQHA. As for the breeding of mustangs blog here...find it yourself. You got here for the market opinion and 94 posts on this, just scroll all the way to the top of the page, look to the left (looking right and left are valuable life skills Vicki) read down the archived dates, and click the three dates following this one, those would be 9/27, and the Oct ones.....how hard is that?rh 1noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1981780833943704182.post-40643567997103865022009-10-07T01:01:40.268-04:002009-10-07T01:01:40.268-04:00RH1, very logical snide comments. So what you are ...RH1, very logical snide comments. So what you are saying is that if I am not a murderer, I wouldn’t read a book on murder. If I am not in the mob, I wouldn’t read a book on the Mafia. If I didn’t serve in a war, I would not read history books. What the heck kind of argument is that? <br /><br />You don’t have to experience something to be well versed on a subject. With your logic, if you don’t run a rescue, then you shouldn’t be writing about what they are doing right or wrong. Or does owning a horse make you an expert on all things equine? <br /><br />I did post about rescues and sanctuaries and Ranch Manager chose to ignore those posts and talk about slaughter. <br /><br />Please post a link to the blog on the sanctuaries that are breeding Mustangs. BTW-speaking of Mustangs, make sure you catch the George Knapp report that is airing on October 10 @ 9p NV time. Quite a few of the folks I work with are in the report.vickihttp://www.vickitobin.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1981780833943704182.post-78463106895941369782009-10-06T21:20:02.097-04:002009-10-06T21:20:02.097-04:00We are talking about santuaries and rescues, just ...We are talking about santuaries and rescues, just three blogs ahead Vick turn the page please we would like to hear your opinon on the santuaries who are breeding both mustang and AQHA foals. <br /><br />Incidently per an article per the Western Horseman August issue the AQHA spends more on equine research than any other breed association. Oh that's right you wouldn't be reading Western Horsemen it's for people who actually ride and own horses.rh 1noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1981780833943704182.post-2322572812823655922009-10-06T16:07:56.190-04:002009-10-06T16:07:56.190-04:00Ranch Manager, I find it curious that you guys hav...Ranch Manager, I find it curious that you guys have been ragging about us focusing on slaughter and then you chose to focus on slaughter and harp on that but ignored everything on the rescues. <br /><br />If you have an issue with the stats that say QHs are the leading breed going to slaughter, take it up with the USDA, not me. I don’t make up the stats. <br /><br />Sorry, but if an organization is promoting breeding and registering over 135,000 foals every year, then they shouldn’t be whining about unwanted horses or spending hundreds of thousands of dollars lobbying for slaughter. $60k through July this year. Just think of the hay, vet services and feed that would cover. They are the biggest contributor to the problem and only perpetuate the excess horses. You know the slogan, keep the best and slaughter the rest.vickihttp://www.vickitobin.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1981780833943704182.post-610089604099950092009-09-30T11:06:50.055-04:002009-09-30T11:06:50.055-04:00"As an example, QHs lead the trucks rolling t..."As an example, QHs lead the trucks rolling to slaughter. "<br /> What a surprise Vicki would use the QH as an example. Vicki do you think registration papers are checked at the door of the slaughter plant? Did you know that any stock horse or horse that looks like a stock horse is called a quarter horse in the "slaughter pipeline". Not only that but the registries are NOT responsible for what owners do. They do what they can to educate, they regulate where they legally can. Why would they want to support rescues when so many rescues are a scam and are mismanaging their "businesses" and neglecting their horses. <br /> If I were a horse trailer manufacturer would that make me responsible for horses being hauled to slaughter? If I were an equine feed company would that make me responsible for owners (whether they be rescue organizations or individuals) who starve their horses or responsible for the horses they starved? If I am involved in selling any equine related product does that mean I have to be responsible for the faults of an entire industry? Why would the AQHA be expected to take responsibility for others horses or their actions concerning horses? Again the AQHA bull crap you anti slaughter people spin is ridiculous and shows a complete lack of knowledge in the equine industry, the slaughter industry, and business in general.<br /> There are a few things that I do blame on the AQHA and it's members. We will likely cover those things in later posts, however the number of rescues neglecting horses and the number of horses going to slaughter are not among those things. I'm sure since it will not be slaughter related your google alert won't work and you will miss yet another oportunity to educate yourself.Ranch Managerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15230951347227450112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1981780833943704182.post-21602947635083070962009-09-30T08:36:50.672-04:002009-09-30T08:36:50.672-04:00Vicki-The title was written in sincerity. I think ...Vicki-The title was written in sincerity. I think that allowing horses to slowly starve to death is worse that Slaughter. I do. I do not believe that it is misleading. No matter what the intention, the economy, the problems that led to it, that's what I think. Horses are dying, and dying slowly. If Rescues are indeed businesses, let's get them set up as such. I'm sick and tired of those that are railing against it. And guess which ones they are? You can't tell me that those who's BOD's consist of family members, and who's first concern is to figure out how to best get in those donations without putting any of their own cash in are businesses. Those who continually state that money is not the first concern, the horses are, and the needed finances will come from "somewhere", are not busineses. And WE have been told time and time again, that these Rescues are run solely out of the love of human for horse, not as a greed based money making venture. So no, I don't think we can talk business here. Once a horse is sold, "bailed" "ransomed", given away, the person in possession of it is the owner. I believe in living in the present. I'm tired of hearing about the "slaughter Pipeline". It can just as easily be the "re-homing Pipeline", or as we have seen recently the "Rescue-Abuse-Neglect-Death Pipeline". The Rescue in possession of these horses is the owner, and failed the horses miserably. The Rescue in possesion of these horses continues to do so. You ask what is being done. On a personal level, I have written to and called every single person and department I can think of to try to get some resolution for these anmals. The Rescue in Question has REFUSED home offers from two very reputable Rescues. The Rescue in question has offered to SELL horses in order to retain some of those she has abused. Reminds me of 3 Strikes. What more can we do right now, Vicki? Should we feel just a little more pity for these Rescues as they close their doors to offers of help and continue to abuse the horses? I'm surprised at your statements about what has been done. I thought we had made some headway, I guess I was wrong. When will you see the damage some of your statements make? There are a lot of people working very hard on this, and trying to do what is BEST FOR THE HORSES. And guess what? We are from BOTH "SIDES" of the issue. Some of us can actually get the job done and have an understanding of how these situations impact the issies at hand without setting up a defense. We can discuss it without putting roadblock up. We're the ones who will ultimately help the horses. I wonder, when it's all said and done, where you will be?RH2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1981780833943704182.post-46769246573251611502009-09-30T01:40:42.832-04:002009-09-30T01:40:42.832-04:00Anonymous, I work with rescues on almost a daily b...Anonymous, I work with rescues on almost a daily basis. We investigate, call authorities, fundraise, arrange transport, arrange vet care and locate facilities/rescues to take horses that are seized. I might not be an expert because I don’t run a rescue but I have been involved in everything they do. I also visit the rescues where I have sponsored horses. That’s a bit more than PR.<br /><br />You must not have read my posts. I have said in just about every post that if a rescue is not doing what they should be, shut them down and prosecute accordingly just as you would the owner of a horse. But where is the true owner accountability? If the owners took responsibility for a horse they chose to own or breed, they wouldn’t end up in rescues or on slaughter trucks.<br /><br />As far as the breed registries, it isn’t their responsibility to enforce laws. I never said that. What I said was where are they? They are promoting breeding. While I understand the need for registration fees to continue the organization, I see nothing in the way of helping owners keep the horses resulting from promoting overbreeding. No programs, no supporting rescues, no hay funds, no retirement funds and no help with expenses. The TB industry has stepped up, why not the other breed organizations. As an example, QHs lead the trucks rolling to slaughter. Why not take a small percentage of registration fees to help keep them off the trucks or establish programs that help owners keep their horses?vickihttp://www.vickitobin.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1981780833943704182.post-12206654824493306272009-09-29T22:30:36.429-04:002009-09-29T22:30:36.429-04:00Vicki Why is it any breed association's proble...Vicki Why is it any breed association's problem to dictate or enforce the rescue laws? What happened to all that personal accountability by the owners which in the cases being discussed happen to be rescues? <br /><br />I don't think you have the experience or the knowledge to offer an opinoin about what any breed registry is doing with their money. It's obvious from your comments the only horse related topic you have studied are slaughter statistics and rescues p.r.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1981780833943704182.post-54128827875052442312009-09-29T15:30:37.434-04:002009-09-29T15:30:37.434-04:00RH2, it doesn’t matter who wrote the article. The ...RH2, it doesn’t matter who wrote the article. The title is saying that rescue (not A particular rescue) is worse than slaughter. That is misleading and is simply not true. I’m sure it was meant to grab readers but it does a genuine disservice to reputable, good rescues - and there are far more of them than the crooks. Yes, rescues continue to fail as does every other business and charity in America because of the economy. Statistics also have shown that neglect also increases with the increase of unemployment and decline in the economy. <br /><br />Nobody said it was an isolated incident and there probably will be more but that doesn’t make it the norm and make the good rescues the bad guys. Yes. it is an outrage and yes, they should be called on it and shut down. What is so different with rescues than any other charitable organization that goes bad? Where are the horse organizations in all this? Why aren’t they supporting rescues? Oh, I forgot, they’re spending all their money on lobbyists and PAC donations trying to reopen the slaughter plants instead of trying to help the owners and the rescues that take in the horses they cast off….vickihttp://www.vickitobin.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1981780833943704182.post-17834355536238870642009-09-29T15:21:56.210-04:002009-09-29T15:21:56.210-04:00That’s interesting shovels because by the time you...That’s interesting shovels because by the time you posted here, ICERS was taken down. I still don’t know what rescue this is referencing. And no, this is NOT representative of MOST rescues. It is representative of the minority. <br /><br />That is the outrage I spoke of but don’t blame it on the rescues. Many of the horses they have, were pulled from the slaughter pipeline. Slaughter not only enables irresponsibility by providing a dumping ground but then rewards the owner monetarily. But we already know that majority of horses going to slaughter are not those that are being neglected. Their owners just neglect them until they die or are seized. How is that the fault of a rescue? The rescues don’t get involved until after the crime has been committed. Owners have been neglecting animals since man has owned them. They do it with or without rescues or slaughter. <br /><br />I don’t understand your comment on me wanting drama. Quite the opposite. Read your posts and read mine and tell me who is the drama queen.vickihttp://www.vickitobin.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1981780833943704182.post-4601493331739969522009-09-29T13:39:45.643-04:002009-09-29T13:39:45.643-04:00Vicki, I wrote the article, and I am not in any wa...Vicki, I wrote the article, and I am not in any way saying this Rescue is an example of all Rescues. But we can't look the other way when these things continue to happen. I wrote this because it really bothered me that THREE Rescues are involved in this mess. While one of the Rescues has chosen to remove the horses in the accused Rescue's care (and has suffered 2 fatalities to date. They are also missing a horse still), one chose to leave their horses there, and further stated that none of the horses there were starving or dying. The story continues to get worse day by day, and the horses, unfortunately remain at the Rescue. The rescue supporting the accused Rescue has now decided to walk away from the whole thing. She does not like the comments made, or the feelings about how she's handled this. Where does that leave the horses? Last I had read, the accused Rescue was offering some horses up for sale in order to keep others. Those offering homes to these horses feel that this is Blackmail. I tend to agree. How does someone who abuses, neglects, and even kills horses in their care, turn around and refuse home offers because they want to make money? We have been told that Rescue is the Humane alternative to Slaughter. We are seeing more cases in which that is not true. We are being told that Legislation is the answer. Yet this small number of horses cannot be saved as the investigation lingers on. Can you imagine anyone enforcing Legislation dealing with numbers in the thousands? You want to place the blame on the original owners of the horses, and we can't do that here. This is the alternative you have offered up as the more humane solution for those who for WHATEVER reason, can no longer care for their horses. You can't bring up the economy at one point as a viable reason for the excess equine population, and then lay blame when a Rescue that should be held to a higher standard fails to do the right thing. We can all agree that there are people who just don't care, and no matter what the outcome of this issue is, they will continue to do as they have done. But for these Rescues, who take these horses in and promise them a better life, we can offer no excuse, nothing to fall back on. If that is not the BIGGEST outrage, then we have truly failed. If these Rescues cannot be held up as the examples we have been told they are, then we need to find out what has gone wrong. I have my opinions. As this continues to play out, there are more Rescues that continue to fail. This is not an isolated incident.RH2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1981780833943704182.post-75536147999462997272009-09-29T13:07:39.308-04:002009-09-29T13:07:39.308-04:00Very nice, Vicki. Now you try reading. I went to...Very nice, Vicki. Now you try reading. I went to the sight in the blog - they're a mess. If you'd bother to have read any, you would have seen that most of what I said has been personal experience with the rescues in my area. This rescue is just typical of any rescue I've seen/heard of. I've even gone through your list and commented - guess you didn't bother to read that, either.<br />This rescue does not represent ALL rescues, just MOST.<br />Maybe you should try reading ahead to other blog entries. Wouldn't work for you, though - not enough drama and written by those who are actually there.<br />The bigger outrage should be the perpetuation of backyard breeding, starving, bad husbandry, lack of knowledge, etc. that MOST rescues enable.shovelshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14159340108609481783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1981780833943704182.post-64423956541222358812009-09-29T10:41:09.964-04:002009-09-29T10:41:09.964-04:00shovels, I don’t mean to be rude but perhaps you s...shovels, I don’t mean to be rude but perhaps you should take a remedial reading course. You said --HOW THE HELL CAN THEY EVEN THINK ANY OF THIS IS RIGHT?-- Again, I ask you, where did anyone say mistreating a horse or misrepresenting what a rescue does is right?<br /><br />All of you seem to be focusing on one rescue and want to state this rescue is representative of all rescues. That is definitely not the case and since no matter what anyone posts to the contrary, you keep taking it back to one bad rescue. <br /><br />There are many excellent rescues that are doing great work and giving horses a second chance at a good life. The bigger outrage should be at how and why the horses ended up at a rescue - the owners of those horses….vickihttp://www.vickitobin.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1981780833943704182.post-63032089230439126742009-09-27T15:16:15.563-04:002009-09-27T15:16:15.563-04:00http://www.sacbee.com/topstories/story/2212036.htm...http://www.sacbee.com/topstories/story/2212036.html<br />A nice story for a Sunday. About a decent person who isn't some sort of self-rightous rescuer, but a real horseman.shovelshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14159340108609481783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1981780833943704182.post-40716842405193671982009-09-27T12:25:45.234-04:002009-09-27T12:25:45.234-04:00I wish I knew something funny to say, but if you&#...I wish I knew something funny to say, but if you're sick now, this isn't going to help you any. The Rescue that has done this to the horses is now offering some of them FOR SALE!!!!! The "bail" on them will be used to help her keep the other ones. I need to go buy a new box of Alka Seltzer, I just killed off the one I have.<br />BUT- I have a plan! I think we need to take this article, and send it to the State Reps of Nebraska. Give them the updates we now have. Let them know the Authorities have done NOTHING TO DATE about this! Then, take that same letter, and send it to YOUR State Rep. I know no one wants to link this to the Slaughter issue-I wasn't going to, either. But once the Rescue decided to offer some of the horses for sale, how is this any different? She plans to keep the others with NO PLAN of any rehabilitation that I've heard of. So, with Winter coming, here we go again. If those who are going to support HR503 want to discuss the inhumanity of Slaughter, then they'd better be prepared to talk about the inhumanity of the option we were offered to it. I was told that it was stated on the ABR board that the Pro Horse side is looking long and hard at how this is being handled. Well, shouldn't we? Isn't this also an Equine Welfare issue? I can't believe this is STILL dragging on with no resolution in sight! And one of the Rescues continues to support this one, and continues to leave their horses there, as far as I know.<br />This Rescue may even have played a part in convincing the Authorities that the situation was manageable. I pray that this is not true. But since she is still supporting the one who has Abused, Neglected, and Killed some of the horses, maybe it's not such a stretch.<br />Sorry, I just can't get in a humorous mood with this crap going on:(RH2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1981780833943704182.post-77713839676391470282009-09-27T12:08:51.134-04:002009-09-27T12:08:51.134-04:00Wow. I mean WOW. How? Really, just HOW THE HELL...Wow. I mean WOW. How? Really, just HOW THE HELL CAN THEY EVEN THINK ANY OF THIS IS RIGHT? Isn't there any common sense or common decency left in the world? Has common stupidity become the PC of the day? This is SICK.<br />I can see local authorities not being able to take any more (or have the knowledge of what to do with them), so why don't they just shoot em and give what meat there may be to the local food banks? Hell, I'd donate for feed if they were to go to a feedlot and then be given to a food bank.<br />Sorry, I get off track of the rescue in question because this is not uncommon - I have this all around me. It ain't getting any better.<br />Decent rescues are few and far between (I have yet to actually see one). Of the ones Vicki listed, I'd call 1, maybe (stretching) 2 decent, possibly a 3rd as maybe being able to learn - the rest are lumped in my idea of rescues and will probably need rescuing themselves shortly.<br />I know this topic is important, but it's starting to turn my stomach. Can you toss in some Saturday humor? Some of these posts are humorous, but only in a sick, sad way.shovelshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14159340108609481783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1981780833943704182.post-48311340767545549592009-09-26T18:30:00.238-04:002009-09-26T18:30:00.238-04:00RH1, I'm trying, but believe me, it's toug...RH1, I'm trying, but believe me, it's tough. There HAVE been some good points made by both "sides"....(aren't you all sick of the sides yet?), meanwhile, the story rolls on, and gets worse. What can be worse, you ask. Now, 7 horses are being put up for "bail". And this makes me completely ill. The "bail" money will go back to the Rescue so they can continue to provide care for the rest of the horses. That's right-THEY STILL HAVE THE HORSES! With the exception of 13 that were puled by another Rescue, the horses still remain, and the owner is refusing adoptive home offers. That's right-she wants cash! I think we really need to keep a sharp focus on this story. How it is being handled, and what becomes of the horses is really going to be important, I think.RH2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1981780833943704182.post-57653094286729043322009-09-26T09:08:20.945-04:002009-09-26T09:08:20.945-04:00Shovels, Jane Doe, I am sure glad to see you here....Shovels, Jane Doe, I am sure glad to see you here. It saves me a lot time typing and arguing. I can keep my narrow focus aimed correctly that way. I don't have to be concerned with details and rebuttals.<br /><br />RH 2 you are such a diplomat even when you're pissed. Thanks for hanging in there.rh 1noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1981780833943704182.post-38904480298507171742009-09-26T08:52:43.576-04:002009-09-26T08:52:43.576-04:00Shovels, I think you did a pretty good job:)
Takea...Shovels, I think you did a pretty good job:)<br />TakeaLogicCourse (and you REALLY need to take it again). If I can understand what your point is, and I admit, I'm struggling, all you've gotten out of this is that we're pushing Slaughter, (I don't, by the way), and you STILL contend it's okay to slowly torture a horse to death, as long as it's NOT Slaughter. If you really think anyone on here "relishes" what we've seen in the pictures, and read about concerning this recues, you are mistaken. But, I suppose that makes your argument logical to you. Black and white is easier for some, and it seems to work for you. The "narrow focus" of this blog post was the topic we were discussing. I don't know how logical this will sound to you, but if I wrote an article on all of the terrible things people do all day, I'd still be writing, and nothing would ever get posted. Plus, it would be awfully difficult for anyone to get the point of what I was writing. Perhaps while you were taking one of your Logis courses, you should have slipped in an English Composition course. There, you would have learned all about choosing a topic, forming sentences, and completing papers, article, and stories. It's actually pretty logical, so I think you may have enjoyed it, being the Logical person you are. I do hope you go on to work on legislation, enforcement of food safety, humane disposal, and welfare issues. I think we'll all be just a little safer in our world. I'm not sure who's property you think I'm taking care of, you kind of lost me at the end there. But you caught me, I did not take those courses in Logic and Law that you did, and after reading what you've written, I'd say it was money well saved.RH2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1981780833943704182.post-21778374263434281692009-09-25T21:26:51.480-04:002009-09-25T21:26:51.480-04:00Hey Logic! We have something in common. I, too, ...Hey Logic! We have something in common. I, too, took the matchbook lawyer coarse. Also took Motorcylce Mech. and am looking at Small Engine Repair. What else have you tried?<br />I also got real degrees in the sciences. Logic there was more logical than lawyer logic. I think you're stretching for "debate". I won't debate an unarmed opponent. Actually, I don't debate. Debating means getting your point across rather you believe in it or not. I say what I mean and mean what I say.<br /><br />>You're too busy taking care of other people's property and pointing ignorant fingers.<<br />Totally illogical, makes no sense. Fail. Try again. I'm sure Vicki can give you some pointers.<br /><br />You happen to be on a board of people who actually own, do something with, know horses - not some I loves horsies and dead race horses talk to me board. If you have some logical point, please make it. Why are the number of rescues needing rescuing increasing? Why aren't knowledgable horse people involved in rescues? Why only save the crap and support your local backyard breeder? Can you tell me how "rescues" are stopping backyard breeding, starving horses, making useful horses? Do you believe all horses should do nothing but sit in peoples back yards and be big dogs? Have you ever experienced the thrill of riding a good, trained horse? Have you ever tried to learn something about horses other than the anti-slaughter propaganda? What should be done with the overflow of horses needing rescuing? Do you not see a problem with rescues needing rescuing? I have so many questions for your kind, but no one will give a real answer. Please try.shovelshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14159340108609481783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1981780833943704182.post-38495806780600490182009-09-25T12:38:06.644-04:002009-09-25T12:38:06.644-04:00TakeaLogicCourse: Your to funny..." shovels ...TakeaLogicCourse: Your to funny..." shovels did NOT do a very good job rebutting my points " you need "POINTS" to rebuttal. First without horse slaughter the death of a horse is just waste, its death was for nothing. Rescues are to help the horses that many back yard horse owners fail to care for. But most rescues fail at that. Horders are people that even thou they might have a big heart do not have much for smarts and think that even though the horse is starving and dieing in there care the horse is better off in the long run. NOT SMART... This blog is to try and find ways to stop the horders and figure out how to tell if the rescue is just that.. a rescue and not another horder. NOW.. if you do not like our little blog then GO AWAY.. no one will get mad..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1981780833943704182.post-87658423388454602722009-09-25T08:41:21.624-04:002009-09-25T08:41:21.624-04:00Sorry, but shovels did NOT do a very good job rebu...Sorry, but shovels did NOT do a very good job rebutting my points. That you think he/she did supports my position that you and your supporters are not very good at critical thinking. And, NO...what you wrote to kick this ridiculous debate off was NOT clear; ergo my point that it is painful to read your posts. But again, this will be lost on you and your cheerleading squad. And frankly "manager", it is the freaking economy that is devastating the non-profit sector around the world; not someone having or not having quick, convenient, unfettered access to horse slaughter plants.<br /><br />The majority of people that bitch and relish the failures of some "rescues" frequently support some form of horse slaughter. That's what I meant by "like", not that you will understand the premise. Debating with you people is like peeing into the wind. As to, "Many of us who own horses are concerned when others who claim to care about horses do things that harm them. So we talk about those things to see if we can do something about it. Does that sound logical to you?" You can't be serious. There are far more problems with bad, ignorant owners and poor law enforcement than bad rescues. Difference? The former is more dispersed, widespread and low on the radar screen; the latter is easily concentrated, visible and active in smaller geographical areas. There are people that do things "terribly wrong" all day long to equines, from over breeding, not feeding, training or any of the other required actions necessary to maintain a healthy, happy equine. What's with the narrow focus in this blog post? And don't tell me it's part of the problem. Your level of effort and your pep squad's plus your know-it-all tone with a "slaughter is necessary" position discredits that contention. In other words, your proslaughter rhetoric that a quick death is a better death than a slow death is just as much bullshit as your "concern" for the equines...and your plan is? See if you can put one together that doesn't include slaughter! And you spend WAaaayyyY too much time critiquing people that don't hold the slaughter is necessary<br />position. Once again, says it all. It's part of the Sue Wallis "Mein Kempf" slaughter handbook. I'll continue to spend my time working on legislation and enforcement on food safety, humane disposal and welfare issues instead of throwing my time away debating with individuals that just don't get it and NEVER will. I'll just legislate you and your crowd away into obscurity. Happy Trails.<br /><br />p.s. You really think you're witty, clever and relevant? Update- you are not. If you don't believe me, read your blog and posts of your supporters. And I have taken and passed courses in logic and law, obviously, based on your logic and dialogue skills I'd guess you haven't. You're too busy taking care of other people's property and pointing ignorant fingers.TakeaLogicCoursenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1981780833943704182.post-79355494182831626412009-09-25T00:59:48.186-04:002009-09-25T00:59:48.186-04:00TakeALogic Course-(And I hope You DO), Thank you f...TakeALogic Course-(And I hope You DO), Thank you for your summation of my article. The article had nothing to do with choosing. The purpose was to point out that while Rescue has been touted as a humane alternative to Slaughter, there have been an increasing number of Rescues Abusing, Neglecting, and sometimes Killing the horses in their care. I don't think that's a very good alternative, or logical, do you? The equines aren't being quoted, because those of us who own horses understand that they do not have the same thought process as humans do. We've discussed that on here from time to time. So, it would be logical that we wouldn't do any interviews with them-they wouldn't answer. You did get the point- Slaughter ISN'T better than Crappy rescue-see, that's using logic! And I must have been using a little logic in writing, since you were able to deduce that in your reading. I suppose I should explain-it was more of a Headline than a question. People often use them to give the reader an idea of what the article is going to be about. You're right, I only mentioned the good rescues, because we're not talking about the growing problem of really well run rescues in this article. We are discussing the really poorly run one-see the logic in that?<br />Your paragraph talking about "retarded time criteria" etc. (how colorful by the way). If I am reading this correctly, you are stating, and quite logically in your mind that it is okay for Rescues to Abuse, Neglect, and sometimes Kill the horses in their care because- A) the horses don't really have a time concept, and B) at least they're not sending contaminated meat to people. Well, thank heavens one of us is thinking logically here! This article wasn't about "liking" Rescues. It was about a Rescue that did something terribly wrong. And about others that are doing the same thing. Many of us who own horses are concerned when others who claim to care about horses do things that harm them. So we talk about those things to see if we can do something about it. Does that sound logical to you?RH2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1981780833943704182.post-45476093800490237022009-09-25T00:36:33.531-04:002009-09-25T00:36:33.531-04:00Shovels, you ask some tough questions, and make so...Shovels, you ask some tough questions, and make some good points. This is not an isolated case, and that's why I wanted to discuss it. You're right about the term "Rescue", it's used for almost everything nowadays. It used to be if you went to the auction and bought a horse, you got a good deal, not you've Rescued a horse. It does make people think twice. Look at the number of Rescues opening on an almost daily basis. It seems that just about everyone wants to get in on the game. But very few want to do it on their own dime. This is something that has to be brought out and discussed, or it's not going to change.RH2noreply@blogger.com